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Thread: Giambattista Tiepolo

  1. #21
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    Originally posted by John Kennedy:
    Like Turner his concept was "I did not paint it to be understood, but I wish to show what such a scene was like". Now, that is straight and forward from the minds eye if I ever heard anything.
    Yes. Isn't that the most fabulous statement? One of my favorites.

    Philip Guston said "I don't want my work to be liked. I want it to be understood."

    I think these two statements are synonymous although they don't appear so at first.

    The artist must be completely inside his own vision if he is to say something original. He can allow himself no concern whatsoever for what a viewer will see. To the extent he alters his vision to suit some perceived common taste he damages his own vision.

    On top of that tastes change. And then where is the artist? Looking outmoded and finished. The public betrayed him, which it will invariably do. They want the next fashion. Painters obliging their fickle nature ruin themselves. And many do so before they even get out of the box. They copy the master. The master is flattered. He flatters the disciple.

    The artist inside dies. He can't speak. He can't reveal himself.

    It's his vision, his passions, his obsessions. If he isn't painting those things, then his own voice shrivels. He's repeating what someone else has already said, flattering the tastes of his audience. His audience has already told him what they want him to say. Those are the paintings they've bought and celebrate.

    To go in a direction away from the common taste is the hardest thing to do. But it's vital and necessary if one is to be able to locate their own voice.

    Why are the artists we celebrate so great? All of Rembrandt's pupils had similar technical ability. Rembrandt taught it to them. Do we remember a single one? Does the name Govaert Flinck ring a bell?

    Rembrandt stopped copying his masters, Lastman and the other guy.... what was his name? You see what I mean?

    We see Tiepolo whole. Nobody else looks like Tiepolo. Nobody else looks like Turner. Not even remotely. Unless they're artists copying them.

    If we see a perfectly painted illusionistic apple, what are we seeing? We're not seeing an artist. There's nothing being conveyed whatsoever other than empty technique.


    If everyone were painting accurately, as a camera would take the picture, then all paintings would look exactly alike.

    Turner doesn't care if he's pleasing anyone's taste. He's completely inside his own vision. He doesn't have any theories or ideological concerns he's trying to illustrate. He's not trying to convince anyone of anything. He's seeing something as real to him, rather more real to him, than the apple on the table he's going to eat when he takes a break, if he takes a break.

    Turner is painting something real, "painting what it is like"! If people don't understand it, there's not much he can do about it. Either they enter into his visionary state or they don't. Most people don't. They want to be familiar with it. Turner's later work was continually derided by critics. They couldn't see anything. A contemporary critic called his landscapes "a picture of nothing and very alike." Small wonder that he would retreat into silence and obscurity.

  2. #22

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    bart, thanks for posting that picture, I don't have a copy of that one in my book. I do believe Tiepolo didn't have to deal with a lot of the things that Turner and other artist had to deal with during their life time. Tiepolo was pretty much kept busy one painting or fresco after another and from what I have read, got top dollar for his commissions. The bulk of his fame when he was alive and working were of coarse his frescos. His ability of speed was one advantage for him and so it kept him working, plus the fact that he was willing to travel and stay away from home to complete the commissioned works.

    Now, that mostlikely wasn't a great thing for his wife and children, but his son Dominico joined him in the world of art years later and ended up being Tiepolos right hand man/son.

    The other son was a preacher and was always broke and causing issues within the family and even with his church. Had to of been frustrating for Tiepolo, as he always seemed to be bailing the one son out of his money problems. He made arrangements for some of his retirement money to go to this son so he would have money to live on, while Tiepolo and Dominico went out and painted all the time. Guess everyone has their issues in life, but some more than others.

    And your right about your recent post about the changes in fashions and flattering peoples tastes, just to stay busy working as an artist. I personally only do what I like to do with my art and don't care if I ever sell a single piece. I mix it up a bit, but that is my choice and if someone wants to buy it then great-sold.

    I paint because I enjoy it and it awards me a certain pleasure when I complete a painting to the point I don't even really want to sell it. What price should I ask? How much is my time worth to othersto own an original of my work. The last show I did I sold 4 paintings and do you know what? I actually miss looking at them. They were pretty cool and had lot of nice colors, especially purple. The lady that bought them was a purple freak and just had to have them all. You never know what people are going to like so I just paint what I feel in my minds eye and try to have a great time whiledoing it.

    Good thing I'm not going for the big bucks with that attitude- right!!

    Blessings, John
    Without a brush in my hand, pigments to grind and an empty canvas - I feel naked and unsatisfied!
    http://members.soundclick.com/John+Kennedy
    http://jrkcompendium.embarqspace.com

  3. #23
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    John, It's funny you mention purple. That happens to be the color that I often find on the end of my brush lately.

    I'm glad to hear that you're happy in your work. That's the ultimate blessing. I also like hearing all this anecdotal information about Tiepolo. I find myself getting even more attached to him. There are a lot of artists whose work I've always loved that I haven't taken the time to read about.

    I'm not much into the big bucks, either. Food on the table and a heated domicile have always been more than enough for my needs. My only vice is buying art books. Given that I don't care much about anything but painting I have very little interest in what this consumer society has to offer.

    I'm mainly interested in trees lately. Walking around in them, not painting them. But I might be building up to that. I don't think about it. Whatever happens in the studio happens. I'm extremely fortunate in the fact that we're surrounded by some of the most beautiful landscape in the country and lots of interesting animals. They all get into my work one way or another. That's why we wanted to live here. City life became monotonous.

    The city of Albuquerque ends on its West side and all you have is a vast sky and empty desert beyond that. On the East side sit the majestic Sandia mountains, changing their form constantly. Looking at the mountain every day, one really feels close to Cezanne's fascination with his Mt. Sainte Victoire.

  4. #24

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    bart, for 45 years of my life I was in the construction business and have traveled from one end of this country to the other end and north and south. This country is filled with a beauty that is undiscrible and I know exactly what you are talking about the area you live in around Albuquerque. The mountains are very beautiful there as well as some of the vast openness before them and makes for a wonderful backdrop in any painting.

    And it is funny you mentioned trees as your latest fascination. I use to take my camera and shoot close up pictures of bark on trees and also lean up against the trees and shoot shots looking up the trees into the branches. It was all part of my gathering of stock photography for my photography business that I do as a side business. Yet, I find it all usable in my artwork.

    I can only imagin what Tiepolo and all the other masters would have and could have painted if they had todays technology at their disposal during their time in this life.

    As for the purples, all I can say is a wonderful color. One of the paintings I sold that lady at my last show was done in a purple medium where it was all different shades of purple which compromized the entire painting. It was a forrest scene wit a path going into a wilderness of birch trees. I still have a photograph of it if you'd like a copy.

    But, back to Tiepolo, he used very earthy colors that were fairly subdue in a lot of his work and had a very soft feeling to them. Look at his painting "Meeting of Cleopatra and Anthony" and you will see what I am talking about. Cleopatras dress and her jewelry, the pearl in her hand and the charactures around her. Nothing in the painting is loud and bright, yet is full of life and suttalty and full of detail. This picture was in the Plazzo Labia and was Tiepolos fullest expression of his dream of classical antiquity, of beauty and grace. He did it so very well.

    Blessings, John
    Without a brush in my hand, pigments to grind and an empty canvas - I feel naked and unsatisfied!
    http://members.soundclick.com/John+Kennedy
    http://jrkcompendium.embarqspace.com

  5. #25
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    John, Of course I'd be happy to see a photo of your purple painting. I often include cobalt violet on my palette (cobalt violet deep from Blue Ridge--NP doesn't make one given its mandate). Monet reportedly had Cobalt violet on his 20th century palette according to his colorman. I've been so fascinated with Monet's color for the past couple years that I think his use of violet has had an effect on my way of sensing color.

    You've obviously had a wealth of experiences over your life. It's good to hear of them.

    Below is the fresco you reference, as well as a detail from it. They're from two different sources. It also reveals the impossibility of trying to judge the actual color or pigment from referencing a digital image. The image on the bottom is the oil sketch in the National Gallery of Scotland. It's interesting to see the changes he made when the two are contrasted.








  6. #26

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    bart, this isn't the picture I was referencing, I messed up and meant to reference the "Banquet of Cleopatra", the one where she is holding the pearl in her fingers, but this will do for what I am talking about, as to the subdue earthy color palette he used. And, the over all detail work is just amazing, especially for being a fresco. Also, notice his perspective in the architural work and the marble work throughout, and the detail in the dress in the fresco picture.

    All of his work was of this caliber and it just shows a depth of consentration and knowledge as to the use of color and detail in fresco work that is astounding, at least for me.

    Usually, his oil paintings for a project were a little less detailed and always seemed to have something change or be rearranged in the actual fresco work, but always for the better of the over all piece that he would be working on. This was talked about throughout the book and you could also see it from his drawings and painting, that were done for various projects.

    He was considered the fast fresco painter of his time and worked from dusk to dawn everyday, so he could get the work done and get on to the next project, yet he never failed to give his best quality to all of his clients. He was a very talanted painter and one of the best in his era.

    Blessings, John

    PS, sorry for the mistaken title above I don't know what was going on in my mind at the time.
    Without a brush in my hand, pigments to grind and an empty canvas - I feel naked and unsatisfied!
    http://members.soundclick.com/John+Kennedy
    http://jrkcompendium.embarqspace.com

  7. #27
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    John, never any need to apologize. I'm the same as you as far as being distracted by various thoughts. It's difficult trying to keep all this together. I appreciate anyone who catches my mistakes because I'm certain there are many I'm making.

    Tiepolo is absolutely astounding. I'm glad you mentioned the wrong fresco. Just take a look at the difference between the preparatory oil paint painting and the finished fresco. He makes major revisions seamlessly and magically. He wants to see the vision better. His imagination and his ability to convey what's in his mind's eye seem to be one and the same.



    This is an oil sketch of the same subject that's in the National Gallery in London. Look at how the conception entirely changes from the sketch to the later fresco. His mind is completely at play. :


  8. #28

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    bart, the real fresco though is totally awesome though, but these paintings do show what I was talking about. Also, to come up with the final for the real fresco, there wereseveral drawings completed with lot of changes. Same for the Meeting of Cleopatra.

    Thanks for postings pictures as it will be helpful for those that have no books on Tiepolo. It is much appreciated.

    Blessings, John
    Without a brush in my hand, pigments to grind and an empty canvas - I feel naked and unsatisfied!
    http://members.soundclick.com/John+Kennedy
    http://jrkcompendium.embarqspace.com

  9. #29
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    John, I'd like to recommend a book with some outstanding Tiepolo reproductions in case you're unaware of it.

    http://www.amazon.com/Tiepolo-Master...6612764&sr=1-3

  10. #30

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    bart, I know of the book, but the book I have have all theses pictures in it and all the Wurzburg pictures nd the photos in my book look much better than in the book you have mentioned.

    The book I have is by Michael Levey titled Giambattista Tiepolo His Life and Art It it the 1986 Edition- Yale University Press- Ne Haven and London Version

    http://www.amazon.com/Giambattista-T...6623767&sr=1-4

    Look at the price $501.00 This book has it all.

    But, thank you for the information, I appreciate it very much. I may check it out at the library.

    Blessings, John
    Without a brush in my hand, pigments to grind and an empty canvas - I feel naked and unsatisfied!
    http://members.soundclick.com/John+Kennedy
    http://jrkcompendium.embarqspace.com

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