Asphaltum, Bitumen or Whatever

[Saturn]

You know what, Kenneth, may I call you this way ?
I think I have some guess regarding what might this colour in the old masters be. recently I was walking in one street here where they sell all possible things and found one material which I first thought it to be asphaltum by visual appearance. I could swear thatthis is asphaltum, but at a close look it seemed a bit sandy. Then I asked the seller what is this. he could not tell me. I bought some and returned home to experiment with it . the only info I got from the seller was that they use this to paint wood and that this is natural product they mine. I guessed that this could have also been Van Dyck earth but decided to experiment with it. I ground it in oil and it had the exact appearance and colour of asphaltum paint! But this is not what surprised me. What surprised me was that it could be dissolved in water perfectly. Having found this I tried it and found that this also resembles very much Bistre ink. Then I could swear that this is bistre used by the old masters. Much later I found someone here who could tell me that this is produced from wood sooth( his description was not perfect or much detailed for he himself didn`t know much ). I also read somewhere that bistre although not often was also used by some old masters in oil. I can tell why- it looks exactly like asphalt. At least the one that I got here. I will see if I can post you photo of it soon.....

[Kenneth Freed]

Thank you very much.

[Saturn]

:rolleyes:
I scanned an image of the pigment I told you about and tried to upload it here in my messege but it seems impossible. It allows only images from Internet URL`s.

[Kenneth Freed]

Sorry,
The posting system is complicated for uploading. I just found out recently how to do it myself so I am not too handy with it to give you help.

[George O'Hanlon]

Originally posted by Saturn:
It allows only images from Internet URLs.

Please send the image to me and I will post it for you. Send it to: service@naturalpigments.com.

[Saturn]

Originally posted by Admin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Saturn:
It allows only images from Internet URLs.

Please send the image to me and I will post it for you. Send it to: service@naturalpigments.com. </font>[/QUOTE]Thank you !
When I have more time I will see what I can do .

[fechurch]

Sorry for interrupting the current train of thought-I just remembered Washington Allston. He was called the American Titian and made use of Asphaltum. Here's the conservation article:

WASHINGTON ALLSTON: POEMS, VEILS, AND “TITIAN'S DIRT” by JOYCE HILL STONER

I don't recall much of Allston's "The Spanish Girl" from my visit to the Met as most of my studies were concentrated on the Frederic Church pictures. I do remember upon seeing the painting thinking: "Ah...so that's Titian's Dirt."

Regardless of my memory, my photo of the picture tells me that it is much darker, redder, and browner than the Met's website image.

[sander]

I'd like to ask again about the 'whatever' portion of the the topic. The focus has been on Gilsonite/asphaltum, and I appreciate the depth of everyone's contributions but could we also include other possibilities? In addition to pyrolusite,Cassel Earth, Van Dyke brown, Saturn returns to the possibility of a water soluble soot/bistre. NP has a"Van Dyke Crystal" in the catalog but I did not see it on line. Could such a product be ground in oil? I don't mean to jump past the research, but with so many centuries of bistre drawings wouldn't there be some use of various brownish black soots for other uses?

[George O'Hanlon]

Van Dyke Crystal is the organic content of our Van Dyke Brown pigment. It is water-soluble but does not make a good pigment for oil paint. Bistre and other impartially calcined plant materials tend to fade to some degree, and typically do not make good pigments for oil colors.

[ 20. January 2010, 11:02: Message edited by: Admin ]

[Kenneth Freed]

I have found pyrolusite to have a distinctive texture which is incompatible with what I have seen. I have Van Dyck brown from many different paintmakers and it doesn't physically seem capable of achieving the sheen, texture or working properties of this brown.