natural drawing chalks (black chalk, white chalk, sanguine)

**Lala** · March 28, 2011, 07:21 PM

thank you very much George! I don't have gum tragacanth though, I would only get it if it made stronger chalks than gum arabic, but would it? My complaint about my pastels is that they release too much colour too fast, I guess tragacanth would make that problem even worse?
What a great idea about the nozzle!!!

Could you say more about your Roman black pigment?
Is there a way to get it in pieces rather than powder? Who could I ask?

Also is this roman black brownish in colour? I remember at Zecchi they offered me a black chalk that was a sepia colour, but that doens't work well with a trois crayons technique which requires a cooler or neutral grey-black.

**George O'Hanlon** · March 29, 2011, 06:11 AM

Originally posted by Lala:
I don't have gum tragacanth though, I would only get it if it made stronger chalks than gum arabic, but would it?

Typically, yes.

Originally posted by Lala:
Could you say more about your Roman black pigment? Is there a way to get it in pieces rather than powder?

Read the information about Roman Black at the link I provided. It is not available in pieces.

Originally posted by Lala:
Also is this roman black brownish in colour? I remember at Zecchi they offered me a black chalk that was a sepia colour, but that doesn't work well with a trois crayons technique which requires a cooler or neutral grey-black.

The appearance of the pigment powder is brownish black, but it actually makes a neutral black color in oil and in most other techniques.

**Lala** · March 29, 2011, 09:22 AM

Thank you George!
It looks very close to those brownish pieces I saw for sale in Italy, I wouldn't risk it...

Also I read the description and Roman black and it's not made of black chalk but of an iron oxide. Black chalk is made of carbon and clay http://arts.jrank.org/pages/9540/Chalk.html

The kremer "french black chalk" pieces are very neutral greyish black. I still wouldn't advise anyone to buy those because they're so uneven in hardness (and superexpensive).

For gum tragacanth, Amien people told me it makes softer chalks than gum arabic. I myself never tried it or read about it so I don't know who's right. [img]smile.gif[/img] I'll experiment some more...

**George O'Hanlon** · March 29, 2011, 12:22 PM

I never wrote that Roman Black was black chalk, but rather that it was derived from black slate.

Black chalk is a generic term that while usually applied to carbon and clay mixtures, can also be applied to iron oxide and clay mixtures. Iron oxides and clay are the primary constituents of Roman Black.

Gum tragacanth can make softer chalks than gum arabic but this is more dependent upon the amount of gum in solution. Actually, gum tragacanth forms more viscous masses than gum arabic, when used in the same proportions.

**Lala** · March 30, 2011, 03:18 PM

Thank you George, I'll experiment some more.

http://www.art.net/~rebecca/OnPrudon4.html
If anyone is interested, this artist shows how she makes black chalk. She uses just Roman earth and water as binder for bone black, no gums. I just wonder how strong those chalks would be...

She's trying to imitate Prudhon materials, and he had softer darker blacks than Rubens, so her recipe wouldn't work for my purposes.

She also shows a great way to roll the chalks with uniform diameter. : )

**George O'Hanlon** · April 1, 2011, 07:16 AM

She uses just Roman earth and water as binder for bone black, no gums. I just wonder how strong those chalks would be...[/QB]

The only way to know is to try it for yourself.

**John Kennedy** · April 4, 2011, 05:06 AM

Lala,

Try this link and see if this might work for you. They have been around forever and are very inexpensive.

http://www.dickblick.com/products/ge...-pastel-chalk/

Thery're so cheap, it is worth a try. It is compressed chalk, as well.

**Lala** · April 9, 2011, 10:47 AM

John, this one has only the red tones, and I've already found the red chalk of my life, a natural sanguine. : )
For black chalk, I used general's charcoal pencils H and HB, these are some of the closer ones in handling but still the look is different. I don't know if their charcoal sticks are better, never tried
For my next experiment I mixed charcoal black pigment with clay and let it dry for 3 days... the clay crumbles easily and writes too easily too. My next step would be to actually fire these chalks, but for that I need to befriend some potter...

**John Kennedy** · April 12, 2011, 02:09 PM

Lala, This is what I use for drawing. You keep referring to chalks but these are a combination of chalk and graphite, and they are in the colors you seem to like. I don't know if these would work for you, as I'm not 100% sure of what you are using them for or trying to achieve, but I personally like them and they work great for me. If you decide to try them, make sure to get the holder for their use, as well. The leads fit the holder perfectly andthe leads are quite thick and last a long time. Just trying to help you out.

PS Another good drawing stick to use if you like different thickness of material in an awesome willow charcoal is Coates Willow Charcoal also available at Blick. Best willow stick on the planet and has been around a long time.

Hope you can fine something that works for you. I know the feeling about finding good workable art products, it is a never ending story. Happy drawing.

John